PyGTA Review of Python Web Frameworks (Part 1...)

This evening's PyGTA was fairly well attended given the rather short notice in advertising.  We got about 1/2 way through our discussion of web development frameworks, doing our initial survey of Django, TurboGears and Zope 2.

Some very interesting stuff coming up, such as the increasing use of the "Routes" package for cross-system composability configuration.  We seem to be in agreement that Zope 2's security framework is the gold standard, as it's ability to compose elements.


  1. Sylvain

    Sylvain on 05/24/2006 2 a.m. #

    Interesting review.<br />
    <br />
    I was wondering why you did not choose Zope 3 instead of Zope 2?<br />
    <br />
    Also, if you plan on reviewing CherryPy, be very aware that the last stable version is 2.2.1 but the current development version (which IMO is as stable if not more stable) is CherryPy 3 and has quite a different API which makes it much better. I would advise to review that one as it is the future release we will be doing.<br />
    <br />
    - Sylvain

  2. leon

    leon on 05/24/2006 7:06 a.m. #

    You really should also take a look at Pylons (

  3. Mike Fletcher

    Mike Fletcher on 05/24/2006 7:11 a.m. #

    None of us at the table have used Zope 3 itself. I've used *parts* of it extensively (Interfaces, TAL, METAL, ZODB) but I've never tried to build anything with Zope 3 as a web-app framework. The point of the review is to get the impressions and experiences of people who have used the products. If someone shows up to the next meeting who has used Zope 3 extensively we'd love to hear how it's different than Zope 2 from an end-developer's perspective.

  4. Andrew Smith

    Andrew Smith on 05/24/2006 7:58 a.m. #

    If Zope is such a pain ,as I've read on many blogs, does that mean that developing web applications based on Plone(Based on Zope I think) results in the same frustrations? Or do you develop to a different Plone api that implements it's features using the Zope api?

  5. chuck

    chuck on 05/24/2006 11:50 a.m. #

    You'd never know that Zope 3 actually existed as a contender from looking at its "home page" so to speak. Documentation that's an online copy of an incomplete book draft. A grand total of five products^Wpackages listed, the latest updated in 2004, some of which (PsycoPgDA) don't even work out of the box on the latest version. The word "abandoned" springs immediately to mind, but for the array of books and training sessions that one apparently must buy in order to break into zope. The zope community is either not producing anything, or they're doing it all in secret meetings and hiding their efforts quite successfully from being uncovered by any search of the web.

  6. alan

    alan on 05/24/2006 5:15 p.m. #

    2nd for Pylons

  7. YangKing

    YangKing on 05/24/2006 7:53 p.m. #

    I think,that Django is the best!

  8. betabug

    betabug on 05/25/2006 8:17 a.m. #

    Andrew Smith: Plone is a content management system, so you can't really "build web applications" with it. It's really a ready web application itself, with a specific use case in mind. <br />
    <br />
    In my experience Plone is way more frustrating if you really have to build web app kind of things with it (especially when leaving the intended use case), but lots of people seem to be happy with Plone as a "drop in" CMS. Myself, I'm getting along with Zope 2 just fine, but I'm avoiding Plone, after one big project where I learned to dislike it's code mess.<br />
    <br />
    One big advantage of Zope is just that: The amount of ready products for it. We're reading this on COREBlog, which is a 2 minutes install blog product on Zope.<br />
    <br />
    chuck: As for Zope 3, I have the impression that most of the people working on it are the kind that prefer coding over documenting :-) Haven't tried out hacking with it yet (still too busy with Zope 2 stuff).

  9. Andrew Veitch

    Andrew Veitch on 05/25/2006 3:01 p.m. #

    I'd be very interested to see Twisted compared too.<br />
    <br />

  10. Mike Fletcher

    Mike Fletcher on 05/25/2006 9:31 p.m. #

    Nevow is the recommended Twisted-based Web Framework these days, so we will be covering Twisted in our review by covering it. Raw Twisted isn't really something you would consider a web framework in the same sense as the others we're discussing... it's a networking framework... or something like that.

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